America... What Went Wrong? The Answer.
76 There have been many books over the years on the subject -- too many to list here, but look for Amazon book links on this hub.
Basically, two general areas are discussed in those books:
1) Our declining standard of living - we're not living as well as we once did, and we're not living as well as our grandparents or parents (depending on our age) did back in the 1950s and 1960s.
2) Our declining freedom - we're taxed more and controlled more.
The various books point out the problems, but most don't get to the root of the problems -- the cause of the problems. Without knowing and addressing the root cause, no solutions are possible.
First, if you are a Republican and think it's the Democrats' fault, you're right. Second, if you are a Democrat and think it's the Republicans' fault, you're right. But, it goes deeper.
The root cause is YOU and your stupidity, ignorance, envy, and greed that keeps you voting for Democrats and Republicans. Every year the Demopublicans sucker you in. They tell you exactly what you want to hear; then you vote them in; then they cash in at your expense. And then you are always so surprised and shocked that they are screwing you over. Grow up!
"I'm going to vote for the lesser of two evils." "I don't want to waste my vote." These and similar are copouts that you use. The power elite are laughing up their sleeves at your stupidity. It doesn't make any difference to them as to who are their lap dogs, their puppets. Whether it's Bush, Clinton, Perot, Gore, McCain, Obama -- it doesn't matter to the power elite as to who runs their errands and reads off a teleprompter.
The elite, their mouthpieces (Clinton, Bush, Obama...), and their lackeys (congressmen and women, such as Kennedy, Boxer, Pelosi...) will still get their limos, trips, medical care, lavish retirement, underground nuclear and bioweapon shelters, and other perks at your expense. It doesn't make any difference to them if you own a car or you have to ride a bicycle, or if you own a 3-bedroom home or have to crowd into a one room tin shack.
You keep on looking to big daddy government to make it all right, to fix everything for you -- to solve your problems. The people in government don't want to solve your problems; if they did, they'd be out of their plush jobs. They want to create BIGGER problems. Do you ever wonder why it is that the bigger government gets -- more taxes, laws, controls -- the bigger the problems? (Probably not, but in case you did, it's not an accident.) The politicians and bureaucrats know that as they create bigger problems, that you will buy into their sloganeering that you need them to fix the problems. They know that you want to hear them say that they'll dry your tears and wipe your behind for you. To "lead" you.
Books for the intelligent wanting to be informed
 | by Donald L. Barlett and James B. Steele. "Worried that you are falling behind, not living as well as you once did?..." Amazon Price: $2.14 List Price: $14.95 |
 | by William Greider. Thomas Jefferson warned against the establishment of a central bank (i.e., an entity such as the Federal Reserve). Google Jefferson's warning to see why, and how his prediction of the consequences has come to pass. Amazon Price: $4.99 List Price: $21.00 |
 | by G. Edward Griffin. Thomas Jefferson warned against the establishment of a central bank (i.e., an entity such as the Federal Reserve). Google Jefferson's warning to see why, and how his prediction of the consequences has come to pass. Amazon Price: $17.11 List Price: $24.50 |
 | by Murray Rothbard. Our paper (fiat) money enables the power elite to steal the wealth of their "lessers" (us). Amazon Price: $19.90 List Price: $17.00 |
 | by Irwin Schiff. The income tax laws are unconstitutional. However, that doesn't stop the IRS from enforcing them and throwing guys like Schiff into jail for letting us know about that. Amazon Price: $14.95 List Price: $28.00 |
 | by Ayn Rand.
"Who is John Galt?" The man who stopped the motor of the world. Amazon Price: $20.80 List Price: $39.95 |
 | by Jerome R. Corsi. Amazon Price: $2.00 List Price: $25.95 |
 | by Michael C. Ruppert (Author), Catherine Austin Fitts (Forward). Amazon Price: $12.50 List Price: $29.95 |
 | by Lindsey Grant. Amazon Price: $3.99 List Price: $9.95 |
 | by Frederic Bastiat.
"The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish!" Amazon Price: $8.17 List Price: $9.99 |
Mexico: The Future of the U.S.
Your living standards are going down the tubes; look at Mexico if you
want to see what your lifestyle is going to be like in five or so
years. Your freedom is going down the tubes; look at China if you want
to see what your lifestyle is going to be like in ten or so years. You
have an undeserved superiority complex. You were relatively lucky to be
born in the U.S., that's it. Your big accomplishment is luck. The fact
is, you have demonstrated that you are just as stupid and ignorant as
Mexicans and Chinese -- or Arabs. You had relative freedom and
prosperity -- and YOU BLEW IT by voting for Republicrat and
Demopublican politicians. You have been offered superb alternatives in
the past, but you have ignored them.
It's wake up time! Are you
going to keep voting for the slime that have screwed you in the past,
so they can screw you over even more?
If you are a Republican, you are utterly stupid if you think that it
will be all better with whichever Republican is running for President
when you read this, and if only we could get a Republican Congress.
If
you are a Democrat, you are utterly stupid if you think getting
Clinton, Obama or whichever Democrat is running for President when you
read this, in will get the country "moving" again. (Well, maybe moving
as in bowel.)
Historical note: For you Perot fans, that's a guy that made his billions off the taxpayer's backs -- big computer contracts for big government -- to supposedly help fix the problems of the 1970s and 1980s. He was establishment through and through. Did he really say anything much different than did Bush and Clinton?
If
you keep voting for slime like Bush, Clinton, Perot, Bush, Clinton,
Obama, McCain, you're going to keep getting slime like Bush, Clinton,
Perot, Bush, Clinton, Obama, McCain to vote for.
You can keep voting the Demopublican ticket or you can wise up and stand up.
There
is only one political party dedicated to chopping government down to
size and to restoring freedom and prosperity. That party is the
Libertarian Party. Every other one wants to control your morals and/or
your paycheck.
If you vote, vote LIBERTARIAN. Vote for
Libertarians running for local, state, and national office. If you
don't vote Libertarian, and you just vote for what you consider the
"lesser of two evils", you are just throwing your vote away.
OTH,
if you are intelligent and informed, I can't fault you for not voting
at all. If you do bother to vote, your vote will be swamped by millions
of mouth breathers, so why bother? A democracy or a democratic republic
depends on an intelligent and informed electorate. There haven't been
any of those for years, if ever. Frankly, I marvel that we've lasted as
long as we have, squandering as you have the gift that the founders
gave us. But never fear, we are reverting to type -- a society of lords
and serfs.
Note: I know I have not provided a book's worth of
examples and details; this is a Hub. I may, from time to time, post
more Hubs related to this. In the meantime, look up the Amazon book
links.
Sheep, and Shepherd du Jour
Chaos is coming to the city -- Protect Yourself
- Urban Survival Techniques
Added 2009-05-25: Unfortunately I see no solutions. Can't fix stupidity. So, it's quite possible that as the meltdown continues, you may need some urban survival techniques. Check out Golden Trumpet's insights. - Encouraging Overpopulation - A Major Cause of the Failure of American Institutions
Overpopulation is the major problem confronting the human race today. Ecological problems and resource shortages are simply a side effect. American institutions have failed because YOU support rewarding irresponsibility, including breeding children w
Hegelian Dialectic (Problem, "Solution", Bigger Problem...)
More About Fascist America
- e-gold e-Currency Account Opening, Funding, Payments Instructions, Gold, Silver, Platinum, Palladium
e-gold e-currency account opening, funding, payments instructions. Web-based on-line payment transactions and precious metals storage. Gold, silver, platinum and palladium storage. MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN ASSETS CONFISCATED BY FASCIST U.S. GOVERNMENT. - Political, Economic, Libertarian, Objectivist, Objectivism, Conservative, Tax Protest, Tax Resistanc
Political, Economic, Libertarian, Objectivist, Objectivism, Conservative, Tax Protest, Tax Resistance, Asset Protection, Business, Investment Books
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I do not agree so much with the delivery, but the message has merit. It is a shame that the Libertarian, Green, and (gasp!) the Communist, and Socialist parties are not allowed to play on an even field with the Dems, and Rubs. I say let the people decide, and take away the big money. How to do that though...there's the tricky part.
I have been saying forever we need a third party . I am so sick of a ballot with no choices on It .
Like Trooper said there, that wasn't exactly a silky smooth message—more like a kick in the nads. But there is merit in what you say. I thought it was a Ron Paul ad til I got to the end. I think Libertarians are on to something; but how are they ever going to get 50% of the country to agree with them?
Anyway, I say . . . Thumbs Up!
Hey James:
No way the libertarians or similar CLASSICAL (as opposed to modern) liberals are going to get 50%. That's why the situation is hopeless. Democracies and democratic republics depend on an intelligent and informed electorate. I haven't seen many of those - EVER! The U.S. is a historical anomaly. It was founded in a "new world" by a "league of extraordinary gentlemen". Even then, the revolution was touch and go; success depended on the European nations' preoccupation with each other. And, it was a REVOLUTION which only about 1/3, at most, supported. It was achieved by WARFARE, not the ballot box. It was foisted on the populace by the founders. No so-called leaders of this country since the early 1800s have been of that caliber.
Now, few of us have the "nads" for revolution and further, the "kings'" troops nowadays have much more firepower and training than us serfs. And the serfs pay for it. This country, and all others, are reverting to historical type - basically feudalism.
A league of extraordinary gentlemen indeed.
hi dabeaner, I would like to see a successful Libertarian as well, but as James points out, you are years away from getting a libertarian close to a majority vote. Not voting is not an option, that just allows the trout mouths to decide who gets in, and although the differences between the parties may be thin, the fact is there are still differences. Anytime we have had a Republican President, or in my state a Republican Gov, we have been hurt less. My state had a 12 year run of Rep. Governors and not only did we have no increase in income or sales taxes, but actually saw decreases. We are now into our third year of a Dem Gov. and we just got a hike in our Income tax from 5.25% to 6.25%, in addition our sales tax went from 5.25 to 6.25, out meals tax went up 3% and our tobacco tax 29% and the alcohol tax 7%!!! And look at the spending mess Obama is giving us and the eventual tax hikes this has to lead to. I seriously doubt that if McCain had won that we would have a
1 trillion dollar deficit, that GM would be govt owned and that we'd be looking at govt run health care.
The Shark---not voting is defeat
Hello Shark. There are frequently exceptions to every "rule", such as "not voting is defeat". Sometimes we are doomed to defeat no matter what we do. The commie-liberal-fascist-corporatists have won. A democracy or a republic depends on an intelligent and informed electorate. The U.S. electorate is neither. We are fast falling to the level of the rest of the world. We started higher, but the result will be the same. Splat!
I agree with the "intellegence" of the electorate, my comment about trout mouths can sum that up.
We definitely lost control to the lefties when they got control of the govt schools and the media. When I grew up the women teachers we had were all very conservative women that were products of the depression, and took their job of teaching seriously. The male teachers were all WWII vets, need I say say more.
By the time I graduated we were getting the guys that went to college to dodge the draft, so you know where their leanings were. Today you go into a govt school and it's all extreme left wing agenda being pushed. They are more interested in socializing the kids then educating them.
And forget dress codes for the kids, most of the teachers look as thought they are in a competition with the kids to see who can look more streety. One female class vice pricipal has earned the nick name from the kids: Bitney Spears---great!
Most of the teachers look like they never drive by the donut shop without stopping in. Did I say stopping in, no that would take effort, I mean driving through.
The Shark
I' know to little about the Libertarian political agenda to decide if they would do a better job than the current political establishment. But I believe, you've mist the point. You are certainly correct to point out, that we the people are responsible for the mess we're in. It's not the quality of the Democratic or Republican Party. Our inability, indifference, ignorance to get involved in the political process and our shameful voting record (under 50% nationally) has allowed generations of incompetent, corrupt and narrow-minded people to get re-elected to their well-paid jobs in government. Our inability or unwillingness to vote ineffective incumbents out of office has allowed an unholy alliance to bloom for decades, between these parasites and special interest. It is hard to see how this will change if the American people don't wake up and start exercising their constitutional right to vote on all levels of government and to use their vote as real leverage.
Beecreative, I didn't miss anything, the problem is when people say we don't mfg anything in this country they are completely wrong. We have a mfg. base unlike that of any country in the world. It is state of the art, exists in every city and town in America and turns out millions of products every year. That would be the Union run Govt schools that are noting but mfg centers turning out perfect little carbon based liberal units. These liberal units then go like well trained robots and vote the way they were taught to, Democrat. All this destruction to our system by the very school system we pay for with our hard earned dollars.
The libs control the education system and the media, people are trained from a young age to be good liberals.
The Shark---saying vouchers are our only hope
Great points. Love this hub. I wanna add a few things here. I agree with you on we don't live as well as our parents and grandparents did. One reason why we are in a deep hole is that we have been occupied too much by entertainment. Hannah Montana? Disney Channel? Reality TV shows. VH1 and MTV. Wow. No one wants to read a book anymore. This is why I love HubPages, people are learning from each other. We are being productive for we are sharing our opinion. To tell you the truth, majority of this country has lost touch with reality. No one cares anymore. And we blame politics and whoever. We must first take care of ourselves and set our priorities straight. I say life is not short, we're just too busy with all the nonsense to notice how long life really is. But anyway, Great Hub and great points! I have no comment in all the political things for now. Haha
The two-party system will pat us back and forth like a ping-pong ball until we acknowledge the fact that they aren't any different, in that they are slowly leading us to a totalitarian state where "they" have all the power and we have none. And Shark, yeah, the republicans move more slowly but they're going in the same direction - Dems- socialism at 100 mph; Repubs - socialism at 95 mph. The only defense is an educated populace that truly understands what personal sovereignty really means. But more than that, really wants it.
It's to late now to change or turn the economy around.
It will collaspe and it doesn't matter who is running the country.
Fisrt off I work in the housing industry and have for over 30 years in one way or another.
What the government has done to the housing market from pure greed and stupidity is unrepairable.
We have to many people out of work and losing their homes.
Homes are being lost faster then they are being bought.
We have atleast 5 years and more of foreclosures flooding the market.
Now the banks are only putting a certain amount of home in the market to be sold. This is to control the supply. This will only prolong the inventory of homes being sold. Extending the length of the housing industry to recover.
How do I know this, I work on these homes and for the realtors who sell REO, (bank owned homes)
Which now the government owns. Think about this, when the government owns the homes and you have to rent from the government what kind of system is this?
This is very serious problem.
Thank you,
Bruce
Well Dabeaner I believe you are correct and I kind of liked the delivery. I am not voting Republican anymore unless thats the only choice on the ballot, I will back libertarian candidates from this point forward.
Thought provoking hub and I agree that both parties are to blame although the government trying to take over ownership of what used to be private has accelerated at break neck speed with the current administration and powers that control Congress. Where will it end?
Too many people want "Big Daddy Government" to take care of all their needs from infancy to the grave and shuck personal responsibility. If I own and mismanage a company, maybe "Big Daddy" will throw some money my way to keep me afloat forcing the rest of the populace to pay for my mistakes? Why not?
See how this is going and perpetrating failure?
Well done on this Hub D!
I am not really qualified to raise an opinion since I am not American, but what you describe rings true for just about every developed nation's problems. An entertaining, if somewhat disdurbing view my friend.
I was pleased and not surprised to see the book Inside the Federal Reserve by Greider on your sidebar. It's on my list of books to read; I had the unnerving experience of reading another of his books - Who Will Tell the People - last fall. It was disorienting to read about the savings and loan collapse in 1989-90 while watching the very same story unfold on the nightly news 2 decades later. And everyone seemed so surprised! Truly alarming, some of the big players in Who Will Tell the People were still showing up in the "recession" of 2008! Great book and I'm sure his others are as well.
Very, very well done. Very intelligent work. Keep on hubbing!
I know that this sounds a bit anarcharistic (is that a word?) but we seem to have too much uninformed, media driven concern for voting for "whoever will do the best job", when in fact we should be focused on just removing the idiots in office... we shouldn't even be discussing the potential for rewarding our incompetent incumbents with reelection. The only way they will get the message is if we vote out the incumbents until the new guys get it right... no matter what PARTY they belong to.
Term limits. No lawyers. No professional politicians. Limited sessions. Limited staff. LIMITED NUMBER OF CHARACTER COUNT (not just number of words or number of lines or number of bills) of all laws on the books. They want to pass a law, they have to get rid of an old one of equal character count. THEN, a 10% reduction in total count every year.
Spay and neuter all legislators and bureaucrats. They seem to be a malign genetic mutation.
Ya, you got it. You're right in what you say but take it easy with the insults. Yes, most people are donkeys, uneducated and uninformed, they trot along day by day like zombies. They either wake up or we all go down the drain. They have to be woken up smoothly though (in my opinion). I have faith in people, they will change ... it is happening awfully slow I know but what can we expect when the mass media is so tightly controlled and it is and has been brainwashing people so successfully. Perhaps people have not reached "the bottom" yet ... they will for sure wake up then.
Hi Mr. H:
Maybe I should get another account -- "Mr. Curmudgeon". :)
We evidently differ in our faith in people. I used to have some -- the "only if they knew" bit. Feh! Now I have NONE.
The problem is not that people are ignorant, it is that they are WILLFULLY ignorant.
And, the main problem is the basic genetics of the human race. Give people two choices and they will take the bad, for them, choice that happens to be a good choice for their "leaders".
I know that my essays and comments are not going to "win the minds and hearts" of the booboisie whether or not I am polite. So I get a little curmudgeonly satisfaction with the insults. And occasionally a few AdSense clicks.
My friend, you are not ignorant, neither am I ... I do not believe we are the only ones in this situation. Faith in people remains with me ... otherwise I'd slit my wrists in the bathtub. I feel like a 1960s communist but I have to say it: "We must unite!"
I have been to many demonstrations (you might have seen some of my photos in a blog I put up) and so I have heard many slogans and chants but the one that always made the hair rise on my arms was: "The people united will never be defeated." There is no unity yet though ... I shall write a blog on that soon.
The System will change ... I am not exactly sure how. Latin America is changing fast (in a good sense). Venezuela, Bolivia, Brasil ... all moving to a socialist mind set. Cuba has survived the "fight", crippled and severely injured but it has survived. Obama's fake "change" is here maybe the real change is right behind.
I have faith for another reason too. Globally we are more united whether it is through email, blogs, cheaper telephone services, etc. Information cannot be controlled as well as it has been in the past. There is information out there and yes some people are willfully ignorant but those are also the people that will follow when they see others in the street not caring necessarily why ... cannon-fodder. It is hard to get people off of their "comfy" comfortable couch and away from their idiotic soap-operas, I know ... I am constantly trying to think of a solution for that. Cheers!
If I were permitted to vote, I would not.
Through out times and planets I've seen success and failure--the ultimate being by those who govern the masses. While it is true that Americans enjoy a life of reactive apathy it has only been at the hands of it's various politicians that they trusted to take care of them that has laid waste to the democracy they once had, and foolishly believe they still hold onto.
If it wasn't the chipping away at corporate limitations that should have sounded the wake up call, the Federal Reserve Act should have served as a true red alert.
But once corruption is seeded, it can disguise it's self oh so well. The one party rule that is the corner stone of American politics today is not just the sheep's fault, especially as their media is snatched up and brought-to-you-by your most loving and benevolent corporation.
Wake up, indeed. But what would you have your species do?
I'm a youngin, I've only had the power to vote since 1996 and I have never felt like it mattered. You are right! We (I include my foolish self in this) continue to vote these lecherous men and women "in" and all they are doing is sucking us dry! I feel like a real cad! Part of me says, what's the point. I do not believe the peoples vote even counts anymore.
What's the posibility that they have already chosen who the leaders will be and only have us vote to make us feel like we are doing something? My instinct tells me I'm not far off.
But voting for anybody at this point in time isn't going to fix anything until people get off their lazy rears and really start doing something about it! Stop writing to your congress men and women because they don't really care what you want, it's about their pocketbooks and bottom-lines! If you are american stand up and take care of it and start helping others learn how to take care of it, otherwise, we're LOST. The first mistake that was made was when people decided somebody needed to take care of them. Well, considering the fact that we have been walking and living on this planet for thousands of years by taking care of ourselves, that is an absurd thought!
Thank you for the reminder, very well written hub!
There is no "lesser evil"; both parties are the same (just as corrupt and greedy, just as concerned with power, just as arrogant).
As they battle at our expence, the people are in the middle without a voice and little choice.
It seems when there is no qualified candidate, why is it the people have to vote for one or the other. If either choice is not good, there should be a pre-vote to extend elections to find more qualified people to run. If a person doesn't like either candidate, and they don't vote at all, then the vote is lost. It shouldn't be the people are forced to vote for the lesser of two evils! Informative Hub!
Many good comments here. Thanks. heart4theword reminded me of another idea promoted many years ago: The "none of the above" ballot option. Along with the candidates listed for an office, also a check box for "none of the above". That would give TPTB an indication of our dissatisfaction. An extension of that would be if "none" won, the office would stay vacant. Lots of luck with that, as well as heart4theword's, as well.
dabeaner,
I love this hub. I've seen some negative remarks about your delivery but you have done far better than I have in the past.
I have called all my friends, families and even some clients some tough names for voting for the lesser of two evils and they have called me no end of rough names for not voting at all.
I would love to vote libertarian, but I can't bring myself to vote for a person who does not stand a chance. I don't believe they would stand a chance if 99% of the people voted libertarian. I believe their would be a recount until a democrat or republican won. Then there is a scarier thought gets me, what if by the end of Obamas term or terms Americans are thoroughly disgusted with Democrats and not quite warmed back up to republicans? The powers to be will have to groom a new libertarian candidate to manipulate us into voting for.
I would love to vote again and do my civil duty but I can't. I have absolutely no trust or faith in government and the rich and powerful in charge of it.
Wasn't there less of a voter turn out for Bush's last election than ever before in History? I was holding my breath thinking that every year less and less people would vote. It was my opinion that if people stop turning out to vote they will at least be free to be disgusted with who ever wins. When you vote for the lesser of two evils because you feel it is your patriotic duty you will feel a need to justify your winners behavior.
I feel like if people stop voting our government will loose it's grip on us and we can start demanding changes. I feel like it is more important to the powers to be to see to it that we engage instead of disengage.
I may be wrong but I would love to know your opinion. What is the worst thing that could happen if Americans just stopped voting?
I agree with you wholeheartedly and I will share this hub with all my friends and family and see if you can shake them up and make them think.
Keep it up. I wish I had more time on my hands to read all your hubs but I am doing my best to change the world myself. It does my soul good to see other like yourself trying to strike a lick or two for what is right and most of all what is wise. Keep up the good work. I haven't voted in 15 years. Maybe you can restore some of my faith.
I generally agree, too ... but it's a little simplistic to say the Libertarian Party is the answer to all our woes ...
Also ... Ross Perot is nobody's puppet ... so what if he earned a large portion of this wealth in govt contracts ...
Does that mean no one should take advantage of their assets? SOMEONE was going to be awarded those contracts ... why not Ross?
I don't think Perot hung the moon ... I didn't like his meddling in TX school policies ... "no pass no play" ... great idea, but the devil was in those details.
However, he DID get the Iran hostages back ... just to name ONE civic accomplishment even the President was unable (unwilling?) to make happen.
Constitution Party for Federal offices.
True Cure and Shaark: I can offer neither hope nor solutions. The reason is that only potentially viable solutions can offer hope. And because of our genetic heritage expressing itself in various religious and social views, solutions that might possibly work will NEVER be adopted. So no hope.
The libertarian party would be a better alternative than what we have now, but there are a also lot of problems with libertarian ideas (to my mind), also. First is their insistence on equating corporatism with "free enterprise". Second is their love affair with open borders.
The Constitution Party is also not a viable alternative. It is too bad that those involved in that seem to me to also be a bunch of religious wackos. One of the major reasons we have the problems we do is because of religion. Religion is EVIL. For one thing, that "be fruitful and multiply" is a big problem. We need general acceptance -- worldwide -- of birth control, abortion, and even INFANTICIDE to establish and maintain a reduced and stable and healthy population. Never gonna happen.
As to voting, because of electronic voting tabulating machines, no libertarian or other third party will ever get anywhere near a majority. Turn any high-school computer geek loose on those machines, and he could program them to fiddle the results to whatever his masters instructed, then have the code that fiddles the results erase itself.
It doesn't/won't make any difference as to what percentage of possible voters vote. Even if only 5% of those possibly eligible voted, the candidate getting 50.5% of that 5% would be declared the winner in a "landslide" by the government controlled corporate media. And the winner would still proclaim that he has a "mandate".
There will always be a lot of people willing to vote, and that is all the governments will need to justify their continued rule.
The human race will prove to be a failed species. "Intelligence" will prove to be a non-viable attribute. We will be but a blink in the eye of history as compared to the lifespan of other species.
If we do survive, it will be as -- once again -- primitive hunting societies. Our technological society, with nearly 7 billion now, is unsustainable. After the dieoff, there will be no rebuilding, as all the easily obtainable oil and minerals have already been depleted.
I could go on, but ...
Sorry, no solutions. Eat, drink, be merry -- life is but a cabaret, my friends.
*ouch* at my stupidity. I've enjoyed this hub, dabeaner, and hear ya plain and clear on the 'pseudo-democracy' parts. The rest, I'm still absorbing.
We have issues here but we have not fallen yet.
1 We need to make politicians unable to take money - they should be servents to the people.
2 We need to understand that power begets corruption and Libritarians would fall to the corrupt banks and corporations just as fast as eveyone else.
3 Never give up your guns because we will probably need them some day to protect ourselves from the people who want to take them from us.
John B:
I hear ya, but re (1) "if wishes were fishes"...
Re (2) Libertarians would be much better in most ways, but they have this love affair with corporatism which to me seems rather naive.
Re (3) Nice thought, but we are screwed. In 1776 it was muskets and cannons against muskets and cannons. Today, it would be rocket launching attack helicopters and SWAT teams (that WE have paid for) against hunting rifles, pistols, and maybe a few "assault weapons".
never underestimate the power of numbers. their is an old military philosophy from somewhere (i learned it from Rober Jordan's (Wheel of Time series but have heard it sinse then) "never back a man into a corner unless you want to see how hard he can fight."
rubbish. It doesnt matter how you vote. Its all prearranged anyway. Any other reality lays within your poorly uninformed minds. (now stay out of the christian forums loser)
brotherwacko: I agree on the pre-arranged voting. Tell you what, you stay out of the Q&A section with your religious wackiness, and I'll stay out of the christian forums.
Overpopulation is not a problem. Read All the Trouble in the World by PJ O'Rourke. Get back to me.
"1 We need to make politicians unable to take money - they should be servents to the people. "
Suuurrreee... We'll get many wonderful candidates that way. Does Jury Duty sound familiar?
nicomp: I strongly disagree that overpopulation is not a problem. Take a look around you, at reality. Unless aliens (extraterrestrial) are real and gift us with some magic energy technology and can replenish the seas with natural fish (not factory farmed diseased and hormoned substitutes), etc., the human race is S.O.L. There WILL be a massive die-off.
Overpopulation is the fart in the elevator that conservatives and libertarians pointedly deny and ignore because population control would not be libertarian, not to mention causing all the religious wackos to also go ape. So, while the problem is insoluble that doesn't mean that there is no problem.
Also see my Hub
hubbers
As a citizen we all have an opportunity to vote, the law of the land is clear regarding the rights of voters and citizens running for office.
The discussions included Republican, Democrat and Libertarian voters.
Let's not forget the Independents who are voters who do not favor their parties affiliation candidates. The Independent voters help to stabilize the election of candidates that may not support the will of the people.
We live in a great country and we should take pride in voting in free elections.
We must be informed voters by checking the candidates background and affiliations. It's a fact that money does buy elections. Finding honest candidates with integrity are somewhat difficult these days.
Everyone should vote at least once for the best candidate running. If we vote for the wrong guy this time, we will get more chances the next time around.
I totally agree. Even if there are no good choices for public office a Libertarian almost always receives my vote. I find the pulling of votes for the democrats and republicans a necessary evil. I would be open to allowing the popular vote decide an election rather than the electoral college.
D_D_Brown
The US Constitution has held up after all these years. The electoral college of counting the votes is one of the checks and balances in the US constitution. In the final results the college balances the voting process. Large states with greater populations could gain an advantage over less populated states if the majority popular vote was to determine a winner.
The US constitution is the foundation of our government. We are a great nation where many foreigners wish to become a part of the freedoms we enjoy.
Excellent, useful, and relevant hub. (I wish there was a feedback button for that). I think we've been wasting our vote each time we vote red or blue. Even if we don't win, an independent movement always forces one or both parties to adopt those policies or else they'll get another split vote next cycle. Thank you for this thoughtful and analytic commentary :)
nice hub, very informative
this is interesting man. The only problem with American Libertarians is that they are closet conservatives. Especially the ones who are trying to run for office are economic libertarians but socially conservative. The other problem with Libertarianism is that, like Communism it is a philosophy of Idealism. The fact is that you need regulation because people are assholes. If you want to see what happens when people are left to their own devices with no government pre-planning or regulation in business, come to India
trishool: Unfortunately, you are right.
There is a Libertarian Party in the U.S. that gets maybe a laughable 1% nationally and maybe up to 5% in local elections. They are pretty much libertarian both economically and socially. The well-known conservatives who sometimes call themselves libertarian are really just conservatives. They are on the radio, not running for office. No one running for office on a libertarian social policy and a sane economic policy has a ghost of a chance getting elected.
Conservatives shoot themselves in the foot with their "god" and so-called family values crap. They are just as much a problem, in their own way, as the commie-socialists aka "liberals".
Idealism, yes. Unfortunately most people want and deserved the jackboot on their necks. And they are too stupid, even when they do have a ballot, to choose wisely. So, the U.S. is deteriorating to the level of Mexico, and India?
Libertarians and most conservatives are naive regarding big business. Especially multi-nationals. But since the voters are just as ignorant and stupid in the U.S. as elsewhere, there is really no solution, short of an asteroid strike, the Antarctic ice cap sliding off, or the oceans finally giving up providing fish, etc.
the solution will present itself. One universal law is reversion to mean or the middle path. Libertarianism as a system assumes rationality in people which in itself is preposterous. Democracy as a system assumes equal voting rights which is also preposterous because it gives an idiot majority unprecedented power.
Although, on the one hand, collectivism will be replaced by individualism (as it should be, since crowd behavior is obnoxious), on the other hand certain collective control over individuals is required to prevent large individuals exploiting smaller ones (BP raping us all).
That was the promise of democracy. Except the problem is that democracy puts people in charge who are likely to be just as corrupt as corporations. So the little guy always gets screwed.
The only answer to this, I am afraid is the rethinking of the concept of the nation state itself. And that can only happen, if we recognize patriotism for what it really is: propaganda fed tribalism. Unfortunately, we are all fed and are party to the ideals of the nation state and getting over our addiction to identify ourselves as something other than human will take a long time.
p.s. The only reason the U.S. is "falling to the level" of Mexico and India is because for years the individual American had access to more resources per capita, and therefore a better life than the average Mexican or Indian for no other reason than the accident of birth, kinda similar to why a King poops in a gold pot that the peasant has to clean up and now as the natural economic cycle takes its course, you will see the powers of the king diminish and the rise of the peasant class of countries not through revolution but through basic economics
trishool: Excellent comments. One tenet of libertarianism, which libertarians do not vocalize too loudly (in the U.S., for obvious reasons) is "open borders", which if fully implemented worldwide, would lead to collapse of nation states. Not gonna happen for a long, long time, if ever.
Yes, the average U.S. American is no more intelligent than others. It WAS a winning of the lottery to be born in the U.S. Being lucky has given most an undeserved sense of self-worth.
I disagree on the resources per capita bit, though. A major problem is cultural. And by cultural, I mean beliefs about procreation, birth control, abortion.
South America started out just the same as the North America U.S. and Canada. They had an equal shot at relative freedom and prosperity. But South and Central America are Catholic; the North is Protestant. North America started out with common law, the South with Napoleonic law. More or less. While religion generally sucks, the Calvinistic influences in North America led to societies with less corruption (in the past) than the Catholic Central and South America, and Asia, India, and the Middle East. The U.S. is reverting to the mean of corruption. Equal poverty will follow.
If it were not for the effing illegal alien Mexicans, importing their failed culture into the U.S., the population of the U.S. would be stable. India, China, the Middle east, they are all still breeding like "no tomorrow", which that breeding leads to. The U.S. population is rapidly increasing due to, mainly illegal Mexican aliens, and their popping out litters like rabbits. So, the standard of living is declining and will continue as the U.S. becomes another "third-world" country.
I know this is rather incoherent, but it is very late here, and I have real work to do tomorrow, but wanted to get something posted in response.
kudos for not blaming one side but holding everyone accountable for their actions.
I sympathize with your complaints, but I don't think that our problems are particularly knew. Corruption and pandering to voters are as old as our republic. If anything, the two parties are more different from one another (and less corrupt) now than they were in the late 19th century.
Still, voters need to turn to candidates who are willing to tell us some hard truths. The current system is unsustainable, and some sacrifices will have to be made in the near future.
FF: Yeah, nothing new. It's been going on, in a general sense, for millennia. This republic offered a new start, but it didn't taken long to revert to historical lows (yes, starting in the early 1800s).
Yes, unsustainable. Sacrifices will not be voluntary, through the political system. They will be forced by reality.
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years."
That is one of the reasons why the founding fathers limited the franchise to property holders. Somewhere along the way, the seduction of the shibboleth/platituder "one man one vote" led us to lose sight of the fact that democracy is "how" of government, not the "why". "One man one vote" leads to tyranny in the end.
"Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage."
See
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytl
and "Encouraging Overpopulation - A Major Cause of the Failure of American Institutions"
Hi dabeaner, liked your hub it has your style written all over it...lol well I am a conservative democrat and a liberal republican.......what does that say about me? Well more of a republican since a democrat is in office now, but that may change...lol
We have a Muslim President not even a citizen of this country and no one cares or does a thing, it's over. We all know it and the republicans know it you are right about them being together. Palin wanted to priss around awhile but she lost her chance. I can't stand her but she beats a non citizen Muslim. She would have been an embarrassment but she wouldn't have sold us to Mexico maybe or the Arabs, maybe. Maybe McCain would have got her busy on something out of the way. I have been screaming for a third party forever but everyone is blind and I really do think it is too late. Everyone just sits and waits for the slaughter and it is coming.
Hello Pollyannalana: Thanks for your comment. I don't know if Obama is Muslim or not. To me that makes not a lot of difference. One thing is that Congress could have prevented the sell-out. And most of Congress are Christians (or they at least thump the hell out of the Bible), and they haven't stopped the sell-out. The other is that all the Presidents for decades, not just Obama, have been part of the sell-out. And that is totally independent of whatever religion they have.
Palin and her clan was an entertaining diversion. McCain actually would not have been any better than Obama. NO ONE gets to be a serious contender for the Presidency unless they are bought and paid for by TPTB (the behind-the-scenes ruling elite).
As to the root cause, which is unsolvable, is that a free country requires an intelligent and informed electorate. The American public is just as stupid and provincial as any Arab/Muslim wog or African aborigine. The only reason we still have some freedom and prosperity left is the remnants of a confluence of historical anomalies -- the discovery of a "new world" (the Americas), lucking out by winning the War of Independence with the help of the French against the Brits, and a political coup by some relatively enlightened leaders (Paine, Jefferson, Washington, and many others).
Most people are stupid and gullible. The same psychology that makes them fall for stupid religions such as Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc., also makes them fall for and vote for and/or support "leaders" that are going to screw them.
Re (3) Nice thought, but we are screwed. In 1776 it was muskets and cannons against muskets and cannons. Today, it would be rocket launching attack helicopters and SWAT teams (that WE have paid for) against hunting rifles, pistols, and maybe a few "assault weapons".
Too bad you cannot see the evil smirk on my face now. We have numbers! How did Russia beat the Germany on the east front? True they had some help from the west but ultimately they won because they had numbers and were fighting on home front. How is the Taliban winning? It's guerrila warfare ... remember Mogadishu? SWAT Teams are nothing.
The numbers are not there. (Yet?) Too many quislings and dependents on the government that will snitch, turn you in, or even fight you in "defense" of the government that is stomping them. (Abused wife, beaten dog syndrome). Too many still look to government for their paychecks -- snivel servants, pensioners, individual and corporate contractors, etc. Things will have to get REALLY bad for the numbers to increase sufficiently.
Well, aren't things getting progressively worse by the day? And yes, I wasn't talking about tomorrow ... if it does get to that point though, no government can last long though, regardless of their weapons. People are really awakening and it is encouraging.
Dabeaner, I respect your right to support the Libertarians, but for me personally, I think it's just not the answer. My philosophy is that yes, there is a role for government in people's lives. I don't mind paying taxes as long as my taxes are used, not for enriching the Military Industrial Complex, or for bailing out Wall Street highrollers who lost their shirts, but rather for things which do make our lives better. Social Security, FDA, OSHA, the Veteran's Administration, Department of Education, EPA - these organizations were put in place to protect us from the very predations we're seeing now. Deregulation is not the answer. A "hands off" approach just isn't workable. That's why I am now a proud member of the Green Party. We need true progressives, and they can only come about as a result of the efforts of the Green Party. That's just my opinion,by the way;it's worth what it costs.
Gene, a government big enough to wipe everyone's butt is big enough to do what it wants, irrespective of your wishes. The conservatives want a big government to regulate your body and morals. The government is only too happy to oblige. The liberals want a big government in loco parentis (to stand in for parents -- or big brother). The government is only too happy to oblige. Any request by the busybody/fascist and/or bleating/sniveling liberal is an opportunity for government -- that is, the power seekers comprising government -- to increase its power.
IMO, A Whole lot more than one thing went *wrong* - :}
I know...you know that as well.
What is really scary is I truly do not think in my heart of hearts it is going to come back...
Not that anyonw would expect it to be the *America* it ever once was...but this is SO much worse. The country is now globally scorned; horrofically in debt and printing money with *Nothing* to back it up...
Worse still...there *IS* NOONE to Vote FOR...?
It is All sounding Very much the same as what happened to Russia...
Candie V Level 4 Commenter 3 years ago
It may seem like a 'loose/loose' or a 'break-even' but I kinda like having (or believing I can) a vote.. It won't change the tide, it won't make the birds sing sweeter, but it's my voice, whichever way it goes! It does come down, as all things should, to personal responsibility, and I thank you for writing your heart into this!